tv Forbes on FOX FOX News July 10, 2010 11:00am-11:30am EDT
>> not yet. more trouble ahead for the developing economies. >> for our markets, what do you think this summer, rest of the summer? >> moving sideways. >> all right. moving sideways. you heard it from the man. now the other man, david asman with "forbes on fox" is next. here's dave! ♪ ♪ ♪ captioned by closed captioning services, inc >> david: the debt clock keeps ticking up as the clock keeps ticking down on the bush tax cuts. they're set to expire less than six months and now some demes are saying you want to extend them? well, you got to pay for them. is this new pay-go concern their way to forego all of them? hi, everybody, i'm david asman. welcome to "forbes on fox." let's go in focus with victoria barret, mike, elizabeth macdonald, quentin hardy, and stephane fitch. steve is back next week. mike, are they using the pay-go as political cover for raising taxes? >> absolutely, david.
it's a dishonest argument the democrats are using because cuts in marginal tax rates whether under bush, reagan or kennedy actually increase revenue that flowed into the government because it increased economic activity. >> david: stephane, it's just political cover for tax raises, that's what is going on here? >> maybe and it would be unfortunate if that were so. i think some of the democrats who have got this wrong found the bedfellows on the right who also have it wrong. the bush tax cuts were not particularly smart. they weren't particularly valuable. but we got to hold our nose and keep them in place for now. the economy needs steadiness. i'm for fiscal irresponsibility, keep spending, keep the tax cuts in place. >> for fiscal irresponsibility. are the tax cuts expiring and are democrats going to be raising? >> yes, they will expire. i have a great plan for the white house. what they can say, bush signed the law, sunset on the tax cuts. if your taxes go up in
january, i'll blame it on the previous administration. think it will work? it might just work. i think the tax cuts are not here to stay. tax increases are definite. even on the middle class. in fact, obama's already broken his pledge, hasn't he? when he raised taxes on sun tanning parlors, didn't it hit the middle class? >> david: that's true. no way to know if it's the middle class people don't want tans and got tax increases. quinton what do you think? >> it's saturday morning but i'm going to get real, anyway. i'm blame obama, too. because he defines middle class over $200,000. i'm sorry, if that's 8% of the country, a liberal estimate, there are still 42% more to go before we get to the middle. these are rich people. let's just get really rationale here and talk about when the things were made. yes, they were made to expire. they were going to test them out and see if we should keep them. since then, we have gone from a surplus to massive deficit, unemployment skyrocketed. we had a huge financial
bubble. the middle class stayed still and did not benefit. got crushed. it's terrible policy. it clearly didn't work. let's get rid of it. >> david: e-mac, one thing very real is a lot of people making $200,000 are small businesses. >> yeah. >> david: they are unincorporated businesses who take their income as personal income and they will be killed. those are the kind of people that hire people and could be curing the jobs. >> 80% of the small businesses knocked out about 20,000 workers every month since i think for the last several months. i hear what quinton is saying and making important points here, but you don't feel like you're in the middle class basically, you don't feel like you're rich in the $200,000 range, when you are living in a high-priced city with state and local taxes loaded in. you feel very middle class in that bracket with the numbers. as to whether or not the -- >> you're not. >> whether or not the tax cuts helped economy, we added equivalent g.d.p. of france
under the tax cuts and bully for the tax cuts, they brought in more than $700 billion by some estimates and more federal fiscal knew. >> david: victoria again, i emphasize it's not just rich people that the tax increases are going to go after. it's small businesses. >> it's small businesses, and it's investors. you have the possibility of the capital gain rate going up. that is going to be a hit on the stock market. it's probably being priced in already. you know, i think there is the reality of taxes, actually, going up. and then a psychological tax on people just not knowing what their tax rates are going to be. we need certainty in the tax system. not -- i blame the bush administration for this. not this sort of temporary phasing in and out, which i think we will see again, because that's the way the democrats can loophole their way around the deficit issue saying well, we'll increase these rates and we'll decrease these rates but only for another five years and long-term they will ratchet back up. that's how you make numbers
look pretty. >> david: mike, what happens when the tax cut goes away? >> you are penalizing investing, savings and job creation, david. look -- >> david: what will happen? spell it out for us. are we going to see more job losses or ends of small businesses? what? >> stagnant economy, an economy like when jimmy carter was president. a lot of it is for the same reason. i agree with quinton about one thing. he's half right. spending by bush increase, spending is the problem, not the lower tax rates. the problem is president obama doubled-down on that. >> david: e-mack, point is right now can we afford a tax increase when it could put small businesses out of work? >> no. we're making the same mistakes from 1932 and 1937. that's why they may not do because it's political suicide to do that. look, basically we're seeing with obama care, 20 other new taxes coming in, three big ones to hit the middle class on january 1. >> david: stephane, you agree.
you're for spending more so i assume you could be against cutting taxes right now still as we're trying to struggle out of the recession. >> yeah, yeah, e-mac has this right. and so do others who say let's not be dumb and try to balance the budget right now. let the economy find its feet. if you don't like the tax cut and you think there should be other taxes in place, hold your nose. come up with a government program to stop the whining. people making more than $200,000 a year not feeling rich because they live in big cities, boo-hoo. >> david: again, bill, though, i would not discount the pain at all of those small businesses that are struggling to keep their feet on solid ground when the tax rates are going up. >> what good does do it if they can't plan the businesses. this is total chaos. >> david: victoria, go ahead. >> total mess in washington. >> that is the problem, too
what the administration has done for business is short-term in the gimmicky tax cuts here and there, if you hire someone in september but not in june. a business can't plan their business on that short-term thinking. we need across-the-board permanent cuts to stimulate the economy. >> we saw the same scenario in japan, i feel like we're almost speaking japanese, when the government gimmicking around with the tax structure. in japan, people who want to hire and run the small businesses have a temp workforce, 34% of the workforce versus 20%. in 1980. what incentive do you have to spend the labor force when you see such a weird taxes and massive taxes coming down. >> obama onics is a tremendous failure. he said unemployment would go below 8% and it's almost 10%. the businesses are not
coming. it's the reason stock prices have gone way down in recent weeks. >> david: quinton, go ahead. >> if you are rich, which you are, you are going to have to contribute to ending the deficit. that's a political reality, because rich people deliver more in taxes than poor people, because they have more money. tackle the deficit. it's a crisis. let's be politically real here. >> david: one at a time. let him finish. >> you cannot cut entitlements unless you have people making sacrifices in the form of higher taxes. that's a political reality. >> i hear what you are saying. if you tax every rich person in the country you are only going to bring in $1.2 trillion and devastate economic growth. >> i don't know which way you want it. the rich deliver more in taxes, you say that all the time. well, it's time they have to deliver more. >> david: they already are delivering a lot right now. that's the point. all right, we have to end it at that. you think losing the bush tax cuts will hit you in wallet? wait until "cashin' in"
exposes the tax europeans tell us we need. folks with riot over their budget mess are telling us what we need. what do you think about that? first, two teachers unions spelling out one clear message this week. no pay for poor performance. isn't that exactly what we need to get our schools back on top? many adults don't meet the recommended daily intake for all vitamins and minerals through diet alone. that's why there's... it helps provide key nutrients your body could be missing. one serving of boost contains
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i'm jamie colby. new hope on day 82 of the disaster in the gulf, the government is saying the oil leak could be completely contained as early as monday if a new plan to seal the gusher works. engineers will begin removing the containment cap over the broken well today and they'll try to fit a tighter cap on it. and if that new cap works, it will funnel all the oil in to tankers. fox news turning into ground zero for the red hot debate on immigration. that happens today. protests expected against the arizona controversial immigration law set to begin an hour from now, as governor jan brewer attends the annual governor meeting there. the governor is expected to discuss the budget deficit, also plaguing their states at the three-day meeting. i'm jamie colby. see you at 1:00. for america's news headquarters. back to "forbes on fox." ♪ ♪ >> david: teachers unions, snubbing the white house.
doesn't seem possible, but the national education association did not invite anybody from the administration to speak at their convention this summer. the reason? well, they're ticked about the president's pay for performance plan. saying it creates a system of winners and losers, but e-mac, you say that's what teachers need. >> listen, before i begin, teachers are basically -- i think they should get paid combat pay because they're running social welfare agencies and nurseries. the things they put up with parents that don't take care of the baby and children and lay it off on teacher is wrong. i've got a family of teachers, i come from a family of teachers michigan grandmother was a teacher, my sister is a teacher -- >> david: pay for performance. >> yes. $20,000 to $30,000 per teacher if they're bringing the school children test scores up. now we have, we are seeing in d.c., we see 8% of the children there, eighth graders don't have the grade level math. by the way, they're spending $14,000 per student.
6300 is the national average. i say pay for performance and teachers would be for it. >> david: incentives work in private segment. >> pay for performance and what went on in chicago and atlanta. i say put parents in control. you do that by giving them vouchers, letting them decide whether the school is working or not working and don't let it be decided by some standardized test. >> david: you could have vouchers and pay for performance. where do you stand, quinton? >> you have to have some benchmark in pay for performance is part of that. you have to do it right so an inner city school is measured against an inner city school. rural school where people don't speak a lot of english is measured against rural school like that. but take it all the way. a lot of the problem is disruptive kids. pay for performance on the parent's side, too. if your child is dispelled
you lose the tax credit. >> david: interesting idea. neil? >> i think we need incentives for performance, but not pay for performance. the problem is we have teachers unions that helped to bankrupt metropolitan areas all over the country. we're talking about giving the members 20,000 or $30,000 for doing their job? they're supposed to be civil servant. if you want incentive, i agree with bill. give them a choice to move out of schools and if the schools don't perform well they get closed and the teachers lose their job. that's an incentive. >> david: stephane, teachers like everybody else, good ones and bad ones. shouldn't the good ones get pay more? >> sure. obama has this right. he has put in a place, a program, smart program, carrot called "race to the top" and states all over the country are having this discussion and we're actually kind of moving in the direction. i tell you what i'm worried about is we go too far with it. we end up with the high school classes like we were reading about in the paper this week, graduate 20
valedictorians. apparently everybody is a straight "a" student in certain towns. worry about that. >> david: that is to bill's point. mike, where do you stand? >> stephane points out something true, i'm against pay for performance because it's a payoff for the unions because everybody is a straight-a student. you have to give controls to parent at local level. >> david: i think we're all this eagreement on that. vouchers are good thing. >> supporters of that and charter school. anything to improve the education system. why are we always sticking it to the teachers. they make $50,000 and $60,000 and the things they deal with day-to-day is unbelievable. but we do see pay for performance happening now. you know, we have it in the new york city school system and it goes to the entire school. i don't know why the teachers union is opposed to individual -- >> david: we're not against teachers. we're against the unions that try to put everybody in the same category, no matter whether they're good or bad. >> they put them in the rubber rooms and keep paying them. ridiculous. >> i understand that there are in teacher categories,
like everybody else, good one and bad ones. good ones deserve more, no? >> they, do but i think it works better in the private school system. the principal knows who is doing well and is not doing well. it's not a stanized test. no incentive to throw out kids who might not do well on the test. >> you see a lot of that going on. >> it's no better at the local level. the problem is giving control of the public education to washington. >> david: quintin, the question is who decides who is the good and the bad teacher? just on test scores? if that is the case, maybe everybody would be straight-a students. >> transparency on all sides. you have to have the parents involved. you post publicly people's writing, not just the test scores but the work day-to-day. you show the classroom who is ahead and who is behind. people love to compete with each other. teachers like to compete with each other. show it and people will perform better. >> the teachers union is against that. >> david: neil, go ahead. >> i agree. i don't think the teachers
are against trying to show they can be good teachers but i think you need to have a sense of balance. liz is crying that teachers are under paid. a lot of teachers retire with pensions worth $2 or $3 million. it would be wonderful to pay everyone $1 million, but we can't afford it. >> david: liz is not crying and go ahead, final word, liz. >> i don't think there are a lot of teachers in the country, i'd say the majority do not retire on $2-$3 million, whatever neil is talking about. the issue is chancellors who are careerists and do not do the right thing by the teachers. the teachers union, you're right. they're obstructionists and they do not allow for reform. >> david: the key is choice. parents need to have the choice to send kids to the right schools. thanks, gang. when we come back, stimulating jobs or slurpies? brand new discoveries that hundreds of millions in stimulus bucks are going to the convenience stores all over america in an effort to fight obesity.
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million to do it. but mike, do fruits and veggies create jobs? >> no, david, they don't. i argue i create more jobs with all the apple pie i eat. here is what bothers me. why do they use my money, the government, to pay farmers to grow unhealthy foods like fructose and corn syrup and all of that? now they take more money to pay people to use fruits and veggies. doesn't make sense. >> david: stephane, this is not what stimulus dollars are for. >> this is good for philly on this one. mike makes a good point about sub suddies. but set that aside. fat butts take up more room on buses, trains and cars. if you have skinnier butts you have less need for buses, trains and cars and you will reduce the spending on the sausage. >> david: it's very stimulus to me. stimulus dollars were not meant to make us eat veggies,
right? >> i don't know what to say about that. they weren't. this is a lot of money we're talking about, north of $300 million in 44 communities so that is $8.5 million a community. that is a lot of money to push the cause. if we really wanted to incent people to live more healthy lives we could have done it in, i don't know, the healthcare bill and given them more power to control the healthcare spending and instead we did the opposite. this is like just, it makes no sense really. >> david: does it make any sense at all? >> in the pantheon of absurd spending in the stimulus, this doesn't even rank toward the top. but the only thing shovel-ready in the country is people so obese they're two steps from the grave. that's a serious health problem. there is social good we're doing here. from a stimulus point of view, it's --
>> david: that's the point. this bill was sold to the american public to create jobs and supposed to keep the unemployment down, not make us eat veggies. >> well, david, it's supposed to help save money on healthcare costs down the road. let me solve your problem, though. stimulus has a place. it creates a basic good that everybody benefits from, road building, elecrification, building out the internet. let's do highway construction and internet trenching, only picks and shovels and we only hire the fat. >> david: mike, what do you think of that? >> this is going to have a bad effect on unemployment because people like me go to the store and look for apple pie and there is only veggies and i'll walk out. >> david: you have to get over the pie addiction. does the bumpy market have you jittery? informers have you covered. stable stocks to calm your nerves and lift your profits. that's next. cial headlines can be unsettling. but what if therwere a different sry? of one financial company that grew stronger through the crisis.
>> david: i'm working double duty. back with the informers and stocks they say are so stable they will make you money even in this unstable market. neil weinberg, dr. pepper and snapple. >> people are thirsty and it's a respectable dividend and not expensive. i think it will have a nice steady return for you. >> david: stephane, go down well with you? >> it has the same problem it
has had for decades; which is, dr. pepper takes like puke. >> david: oh, man! >> you just insulted half the audience. wal-mart, i didn't think you like wal-mart. >> ugly stores, the parking lots are too big but the american shopper disagrees with me. they have the lowest beta in all the dow, nice dividend. i like the stock. >> david: his sensitivities are on edge. doesn't like dr. pepper or the decor of wal-mart. what do you think? >> wal-mart has been a great company but doesn't make greatness out of merchandising, it makes it out of sourcing in china. the cheap chinese labor game is over. >> david: "cheap chinese labor," say it five times. bristol-myers? >> it has a new exciting cancer drug named imfomemamn. >> don't have to say that. >> the profit margin at all-time high, i wouldn't buy it. >> health stock to cigarettes. >> people smoke even when times are bad.